Survey Question: When did you take your urology Sub-I? Advice?
13 comments:
Anonymous
said...
I took an easy rotation, radiology, in June thinking it would give me time to study up on urology topics. Then I took my Sub-I in July and did an away rotation in August.
Now I'm not sure if that was the best order. Since I wanted to stay at IU I think I would have been better off doing my away rotation before my IU rotation. That way I would have been much more prepared on my Sub-I.
Also, I'm not sure my Sub-I with IU helped me that much for my away rotation. IU doctors and residents are so busy at University Hospital (where you spend most of your Sub-I) that they didn't help me learn how to do post-op management, present patients for AM rounds, write orders, do pre-ops, etc.
Advice? Be a team player, look for ways to help the team, be early, remember that they know you don't have much experience... Try to get into your groove. I mean, when I'm up-tight and stressed I way underperform. When I'm relaxed and thinking straight I can make way more contributions to the team.
IU urology in June, away in July. IU sat out match my year, so my sub-i was more to get early exposure and help prepare me for my away rotation. It also helped me get involved in research earlier. Additionally, you need to think about the timing of your letters.
Some things to know: The attendings at IU do not hand feed you. They do not teach on the ward. They have one of the highest operative volumes around, and will teach quite a bit in the OR. They expect you to learn on your own, or from the residents. They rarely pimp you, except for Dr Beck. It is up to you to show that you are working hard and taking initiative. The sub-i is a chance for you to show how you will be as a resident. They all want someone who works hard and is a team player.
Always look for opportunities to help out the team. The residents will let you write orders if you ask, and will usually take the time to explain any questions you have about management of the patients. There is time for questions when you are walking through hallways, sitting down for cheese potatoes, waiting on anesthesia, etc.
June or July. I did not decide on urology until the beginning of July in my 4th year, so I had to scramble to set up my Sub-I and away rotation. My Sub-I was in August, but that is too late. Advice—The 80 hour work week does not exist on your sub-I. For that one month, you should come in as early as necessary and leave only when the work is done. Don’t give the impression that you are trying to do the least work possible. Read enough to have a basic knowledge of urology, but the attendings & residents don’t expect you to know a lot. Showing sincere effort is more important.
1) Spend as much face time with the chair and one or two other faculty members from whom you want letters of rec. Make sure you set up appointments with them during your last week of the rotation and provide your CV and personal statement to ask for a letter.
2) Help the inpatient team as much as possible. That usually meant showing up early to get vitals, I's/O's. Write notes and orders. Carry a suture removal kit, dressing supplies, syringes and saline for drain removal or flushing when needed on rounds. Anything you do to move the team along, whether to breakfast, to the OR, or to home at the end of the day, will cast you in a positive light with the residents. That usually gets passed upstream to the chiefs and faculty and will only help you as an applicant.
Read what you can. I found Urology Secrets and Smith's Urology useful. Hinman's is pretty good prior to the OR
My first three months of 4th year were uro/surgery stuff. In truth, I think you have the chance till sept to do an away although I think it is better to get it done with before your apps go through. Start thinking about where you want to go in Feb/March of your 3rd year. I called my sub-i site in March only to find june and july already booked. Sub-I here gives you great operative experience but your knowledge base may lag...I wasn't really "pimped" much at IU and sometimes that's the quickest way to learn. Take a good handbook of uro with you for your sub-i and read read read. You can do more than one away...I wish I had.
I think what you published made a great deal of sense. However, what about this? suppose you were to create a awesome headline? I am not saying your information is not good, but what if you added something that makes people want more? I mean "Survey Question: When did you take your urology Sub-I? Advice?" is kinda boring. You ought to peek at Yahoo's front page and see how they create post titles to grab people interested. You might add a video or a related pic or two to grab people interested about everything've got to say. Just my opinion, it could make your website a little livelier.
I did my IU Sub-I in June followed by away rotations in July and August. It was a good time to get acquainted with the residents and staff and to get a feel for the program. Honestly, I agree with previous posts that there is not a huge amount of teaching on the IU Sub-I. However, if you ask questions or take initiative, everyone is happy to let you do more and to teach. Show interest, read relavent literature, don't be tired, and always be a team player.
Advice for Sub-I's is probably the most difficult subject because there are a number of different strategies with no clear consensus on where you should do your sub-Is.
While most of the other posts talk about what you should do during your Sub Is (which I completely agree), but more difficult question is always, where you should do them?
This year, I have heard all of the following from residents, other IU med students, and other urology students during interviews:
1. Don't do any. They can only hurt you. (Told to me by 2-3 different residents).
2. Do one at a safety school and one at a reach school.
3. Determine a region of the country to try to 'open' up that region to interviews.
Once again, I will only talk about my experience and please take in with a grain of salt.
First, I absolutely recommend doing at least 1 away rotation. (if I were to do it again, I would have done 2). The other thing you have to remember is for the most part, you automatically get an interview at a place where you do an away rotation (so if you are playing the numbers game, the more you do will increase you odds of matching).
Personally, I would say I am a average to slightly above average urology applicant. I did one away rotation on the East Coast and middle tier program. Being from the midwest and never leaving, I thought process was that I had already covered my basis with midwest programs and I wanted to 'open' up the east coast in terms of interviews.
This may be by coincidence, but a major of my interviews were in the East coast, followed by the Midwest with much fewer in the West and South. This could also be because there is a higher density of schools on the East Coast.
Once again, if I was to do it again, I would have done one on the East Coast and one probably in the Midwest. If you want to open up the West instead, I would recommend you do one on the West Coast.
Additionally, some people say that the first away SubI should be at your safety school or that you are more prepared for your reach school. I am not sure if I agree but just wanted to pass that on.
Take Aways:
1. Do at least 1 away rotation (preferably 2).
2. Possible do one at safety and one a reach.
3. Away rotation will open up some geographic areas (west, east, south, midwest)
Timing: I did my IU Sub-I in June. There were a lot of us on at the same time, but we rotated at different hospitals so I thought it worked out fine. Then I did aways in July and August.
Studying: Buy "Pocket Guide to Urology" it is a great great resource. Brush up on major anatomy and the big hitter topics in urology before you start the rotation. As an IU student you have access to Clinical Key from the Ruth Lily Library Site. Register an account, and then you have access to a large amount of text books. Hinmans Urologic Surgery Atlas was an incredible resource. There is a 6-7 page pdf on every procedure. I read that the night before for each case and it really really helped.
Day-to-day: Be on time, be in a good mood, be friendly with the residents but recognize that you're not "one of the crew" yet so don't overstep your role. Help out as much as possible, but don't be annoying.
Presentation: Take your presentation seriously, ask the chief residents your advisor for help choosing a topic early in the month. Practice a lot, this demonstrates your ability to present an attending's research as a "future resident"
Be interested, work hard, have a GOOD attitude, and be a team player. This is what programs look for in applicants. I had a lot of fun working with all of the IU students on our SubI and we were all working to help each other out and make sure we all had time to get to know staff. I did my IU subI in June and an away in July.
I took mine in June, and did two aways in July and August. Talk with your advisor about where and how many aways to do. Aways are taxing emotionally and physically but are really important to get letters and potentially increase your chances at matching at programs. Bust your buns during your sub i's! Come early, stay late, smile, don't be mean, yada yada
I would do 2 aways. I did two one in the region one outside the region. The one outside definitely opened up that area for interviews. I would really think about where you want to go or what area you want to go to and do an away there. People may say don't do an away there because they never take an away student. I think its the best way to get to know them and have them know you. If they don't want you after you worked your butt off for a month, the question is whether that is a program you really want to be at?
I took my sub-I in June, which was great - not too many people rotating in, there were zero away students so we all got a great pick of cases, and the outgoing residents were experienced so that left more opportunities for the students to step up.
Play to your strong suit - just figure out whatever is that you do better than everyone else and find a way to show it off (without being annoying).
Take your presentation seriously. Pick a topic you're interested in, do a lot of lit review, and tell a story. Strongly consider doing it on something oncologic - most of the docs with the biggest sway in the match care most about oncology, so sticking to their specialty is the best way to keep attention.
Also, don't be afraid of clinic. A lot of students will try to get out of it whenever possible. Yes, yes, we all want to be surgeons, but there really isn't a great way to help out or stand out in the OR as a medical student. But in clinic, you get a lot of one-on-one time with the attendings and (imho) learn the most about urology.
13 comments:
I took an easy rotation, radiology, in June thinking it would give me time to study up on urology topics. Then I took my Sub-I in July and did an away rotation in August.
Now I'm not sure if that was the best order. Since I wanted to stay at IU I think I would have been better off doing my away rotation before my IU rotation. That way I would have been much more prepared on my Sub-I.
Also, I'm not sure my Sub-I with IU helped me that much for my away rotation. IU doctors and residents are so busy at University Hospital (where you spend most of your Sub-I) that they didn't help me learn how to do post-op management, present patients for AM rounds, write orders, do pre-ops, etc.
Advice? Be a team player, look for ways to help the team, be early, remember that they know you don't have much experience... Try to get into your groove. I mean, when I'm up-tight and stressed I way underperform. When I'm relaxed and thinking straight I can make way more contributions to the team.
IU urology in June, away in July. IU sat out match my year, so my sub-i was more to get early exposure and help prepare me for my away rotation. It also helped me get involved in research earlier. Additionally, you need to think about the timing of your letters.
Some things to know: The attendings at IU do not hand feed you. They do not teach on the ward. They have one of the highest operative volumes around, and will teach quite a bit in the OR. They expect you to learn on your own, or from the residents. They rarely pimp you, except for Dr Beck. It is up to you to show that you are working hard and taking initiative. The sub-i is a chance for you to show how you will be as a resident. They all want someone who works hard and is a team player.
Always look for opportunities to help out the team. The residents will let you write orders if you ask, and will usually take the time to explain any questions you have about management of the patients. There is time for questions when you are walking through hallways, sitting down for cheese potatoes, waiting on anesthesia, etc.
June or July. I did not decide on urology until the beginning of July in my 4th year, so I had to scramble to set up my Sub-I and away rotation. My Sub-I was in August, but that is too late.
Advice—The 80 hour work week does not exist on your sub-I. For that one month, you should come in as early as necessary and leave only when the work is done. Don’t give the impression that you are trying to do the least work possible. Read enough to have a basic knowledge of urology, but the attendings & residents don’t expect you to know a lot. Showing sincere effort is more important.
First or second rotation of 4th year.
You have two jobs on the Sub-I
1) Spend as much face time with the chair and one or two other faculty members from whom you want letters of rec. Make sure you set up appointments with them during your last week of the rotation and provide your CV and personal statement to ask for a letter.
2) Help the inpatient team as much as possible. That usually meant showing up early to get vitals, I's/O's. Write notes and orders. Carry a suture removal kit, dressing supplies, syringes and saline for drain removal or flushing when needed on rounds. Anything you do to move the team along, whether to breakfast, to the OR, or to home at the end of the day, will cast you in a positive light with the residents. That usually gets passed upstream to the chiefs and faculty and will only help you as an applicant.
Read what you can. I found Urology Secrets and Smith's Urology useful. Hinman's is pretty good prior to the OR
My first three months of 4th year were uro/surgery stuff. In truth, I think you have the chance till sept to do an away although I think it is better to get it done with before your apps go through. Start thinking about where you want to go in Feb/March of your 3rd year. I called my sub-i site in March only to find june and july already booked. Sub-I here gives you great operative experience but your knowledge base may lag...I wasn't really "pimped" much at IU and sometimes that's the quickest way to learn. Take a good handbook of uro with you for your sub-i and read read read. You can do more than one away...I wish I had.
I think what you published made a great deal of sense. However, what about this?
suppose you were to create a awesome headline? I am
not saying your information is not good, but what if you added something that
makes people want more? I mean "Survey Question: When did you take your urology Sub-I? Advice?" is
kinda boring. You ought to peek at Yahoo's front page and see how they create post titles to grab people interested. You might add a video or a related pic or two to grab people interested about everything've got to
say. Just my opinion, it could make your website
a little livelier.
My homepage: gesund kochen rezepte
I did my IU Sub-I in June followed by away rotations in July and August. It was a good time to get acquainted with the residents and staff and to get a feel for the program. Honestly, I agree with previous posts that there is not a huge amount of teaching on the IU Sub-I. However, if you ask questions or take initiative, everyone is happy to let you do more and to teach. Show interest, read relavent literature, don't be tired, and always be a team player.
Advice for Sub-I's is probably the most difficult subject because there are a number of different strategies with no clear consensus on where you should do your sub-Is.
While most of the other posts talk about what you should do during your Sub Is (which I completely agree), but more difficult question is always, where you should do them?
This year, I have heard all of the following from residents, other IU med students, and other urology students during interviews:
1. Don't do any. They can only hurt you. (Told to me by 2-3 different residents).
2. Do one at a safety school and one at a reach school.
3. Determine a region of the country to try to 'open' up that region to interviews.
Once again, I will only talk about my experience and please take in with a grain of salt.
First, I absolutely recommend doing at least 1 away rotation. (if I were to do it again, I would have done 2). The other thing you have to remember is for the most part, you automatically get an interview at a place where you do an away rotation (so if you are playing the numbers game, the more you do will increase you odds of matching).
Personally, I would say I am a average to slightly above average urology applicant. I did one away rotation on the East Coast and middle tier program. Being from the midwest and never leaving, I thought process was that I had already covered my basis with midwest programs and I wanted to 'open' up the east coast in terms of interviews.
This may be by coincidence, but a major of my interviews were in the East coast, followed by the Midwest with much fewer in the West and South. This could also be because there is a higher density of schools on the East Coast.
Once again, if I was to do it again, I would have done one on the East Coast and one probably in the Midwest. If you want to open up the West instead, I would recommend you do one on the West Coast.
Additionally, some people say that the first away SubI should be at your safety school or that you are more prepared for your reach school. I am not sure if I agree but just wanted to pass that on.
Take Aways:
1. Do at least 1 away rotation (preferably 2).
2. Possible do one at safety and one a reach.
3. Away rotation will open up some geographic areas (west, east, south, midwest)
Timing:
I did my IU Sub-I in June. There were a lot of us on at the same time, but we rotated at different hospitals so I thought it worked out fine. Then I did aways in July and August.
Studying:
Buy "Pocket Guide to Urology" it is a great great resource. Brush up on major anatomy and the big hitter topics in urology before you start the rotation. As an IU student you have access to Clinical Key from the Ruth Lily Library Site. Register an account, and then you have access to a large amount of text books. Hinmans Urologic Surgery Atlas was an incredible resource. There is a 6-7 page pdf on every procedure. I read that the night before for each case and it really really helped.
Day-to-day:
Be on time, be in a good mood, be friendly with the residents but recognize that you're not "one of the crew" yet so don't overstep your role. Help out as much as possible, but don't be annoying.
Presentation: Take your presentation seriously, ask the chief residents your advisor for help choosing a topic early in the month. Practice a lot, this demonstrates your ability to present an attending's research as a "future resident"
Be interested, work hard, have a GOOD attitude, and be a team player. This is what programs look for in applicants. I had a lot of fun working with all of the IU students on our SubI and we were all working to help each other out and make sure we all had time to get to know staff. I did my IU subI in June and an away in July.
I took mine in June, and did two aways in July and August. Talk with your advisor about where and how many aways to do. Aways are taxing emotionally and physically but are really important to get letters and potentially increase your chances at matching at programs. Bust your buns during your sub i's! Come early, stay late, smile, don't be mean, yada yada
I would do 2 aways. I did two one in the region one outside the region. The one outside definitely opened up that area for interviews. I would really think about where you want to go or what area you want to go to and do an away there. People may say don't do an away there because they never take an away student. I think its the best way to get to know them and have them know you. If they don't want you after you worked your butt off for a month, the question is whether that is a program you really want to be at?
I took my sub-I in June, which was great - not too many people rotating in, there were zero away students so we all got a great pick of cases, and the outgoing residents were experienced so that left more opportunities for the students to step up.
Play to your strong suit - just figure out whatever is that you do better than everyone else and find a way to show it off (without being annoying).
Take your presentation seriously. Pick a topic you're interested in, do a lot of lit review, and tell a story. Strongly consider doing it on something oncologic - most of the docs with the biggest sway in the match care most about oncology, so sticking to their specialty is the best way to keep attention.
Also, don't be afraid of clinic. A lot of students will try to get out of it whenever possible. Yes, yes, we all want to be surgeons, but there really isn't a great way to help out or stand out in the OR as a medical student. But in clinic, you get a lot of one-on-one time with the attendings and (imho) learn the most about urology.
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